On January 14, 2013 by

Why I Don’t Own A Gun

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Why I Don’t Own A Gun
by Brian Zahnd

I don’t own a gun. I never have. Why?

First of all I don’t hunt. I have nothing against hunting. (After all, I’m not a vegetarian.) I don’t hunt like I don’t golf—it’s just something I never took up. So I don’t own a shotgun or a hunting rifle for the same reason I don’t own golf clubs. And for the same reason you probably don’t own crampons and an ice axe. Since I don’t hunt, I don’t need the equipment.

Secondly, I don’t own a gun because I don’t want to shoot anyone. Shotguns and hunting rifles are designed for the purpose of shooting game. Handguns and assault rifles are designed for the purpose of shooting people. But I don’t want to shoot anyone. So, once again, I don’t need the equipment. I’m perfectly content to allow a trained and authorized police force to handle this equipment on behalf of society. I think that’s a good idea. (If you don’t think that’s a good idea, well, then we just disagree. Don’t shoot me.) I’m not a police officer, so I don’t need police equipment. I don’t own surgical equipment either, because…well, you get my point.

Can you come up with an imagined scenario where I would wish I had a gun? Probably. Can I come up with an imagined scenario where you wish you did not own a gun? Just as easily. (And my imagined scenario turns out to be a whole lot more common in real life!)

So I don’t own a gun. What about protecting my family? Well, I’ve been married for 32 years and a parent for 31 years, and my family has remained safe. To be honest with you, home invasion is something I never think about or worry about. Am I “prepared” for it? I don’t know. I trust God and pray for protection everyday. Does that count? I don’t even have a baseball bat. (I quit playing baseball years ago.) I suppose my ice axe could be used as a weapon, but it’s in the basement with the rest of my mountain gear…because that’s it’s purpose, to climb mountains, not to be (mis)used as a weapon.

So it turns out I have no weapons. I’m unprepared for a home invasion. Of course there are endless possibilities of things for which I am unprepared. I was unprepared for my grandson to get cancer, but he did…and we made it through that. If my home gets invaded tonight, I’ll just have to trust God. Am I a fool? I don’t think so. But if so, I’m a fool for Christ. Because, though I haven’t mentioned it yet, my commitment to following Jesus is part of my decision to live without owning lethal weapons. Do you have to agree with my convictions? No. But you should respect them. Of course, someone will remind me of Peter carrying a sword (at least on one occasion). Well…I have a sword. I keep it in what I call my “closet of weird things.” I’ve used it as a sermon prop on a few occasions. Oh, and I just remembered, I also have the jawbone of a donkey. (Kept alongside the sword in the aforementioned closet.) So perhaps I’m armed after all, but only archaically so.

Ultimately I choose to live without guns because, a) I don’t hunt, b) I’m not a police officer, c) I choose to live gently in a violent world. I choose not to help swell the ranks of the armed in our society. I want to contribute to a more peaceable and gentle society. Does that mean I’m unsafe? No, I don’t think so. But if I am unsafe, well, then I choose to be unsafe. Nevertheless, I’m not afraid. And I’m not ashamed to live unarmed. Does that make me less of a man? Oh, please. That argument makes me think someone is compensating for some insecurity. My father, Judge Zahnd, never owned a gun and he’s among the men I admire most. I’m sure that has influenced me. A good influence, I think.

I’ve had guns pointed at me on two occasions. Once in Haiti and once in Nigeria. I didn’t like having a gun pointed at me. It’s an uncomfortable feeling. But that doesn’t mean I want to be prepared to point a gun at someone else. I am intentionally, deliberately, thoughtfully unprepared to do that. My defense will have to come from elsewhere. Or not at all. Life is risky. I accept that. Following Jesus is riskier still. I accept that as well.

I’m not writing this to change the mind of Christian gun advocates. (I have a realistic assessment of my persuasive abilities.) I’m writing this in the moderate hope that Christians gun enthusiasts will at the very least respect their brothers and sisters who don’t share their enthusiasm. Neither is this a piece on gun control. I have some strongly held opinions on gun control—opinions that I formed 35 years ago while debating this topic in college—but this isn’t about that. This is simply a little blog on why I don’t own a gun. I don’t own a gun because I don’t need one and I don’t want one. And that is perfectly acceptable. Please try to be at peace with this. As I said, I don’t own golf clubs either, and that’s bound to upset some people too.

Unarmed, Unafraid, Unashamed,

BZ

(The picture is of me and my ice axe.)

  • Melissa Hartwell

    You debated in college?

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    Ha! I did. One year. I had a class — argumentation and debate. The prof said that if we joined the debate team we would get an automatic A. So I did. Good choice.

  • http://twitter.com/drewsumrall Drew Sumrall

    Brian,

    I once owned a gun…I don’t any longer; and I remember (very well) the day it (somehow) ‘came up’ on our (‘Christian’ TV) show.

    I casually mentioned that I had once owned a gun, but after coming in contact with a ‘non-violent’ Christ, I simply couldn’t anymore (in good conscience).

    The viewer response seemed unanimous…obviously I was ‘gay’.

    sad…

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    Have me on again and we can talk about it some more. :-)

  • http://twitter.com/drewsumrall Drew Sumrall

    Call me anytime…you’re always welcome:)

  • Heather

    Right on ! Guns shall be kept to hunting game and police officers. And not humans for the sake of shooting other humans. So far I have yet to figure out what all benifits there are for shoot other’s. There’s nothing to gain from their death: unless you are talking about Jesus death. But that is a whole entirely differant subject.

  • http://twitter.com/TyTrammell Ty Trammell

    I have the same practice. I do believe people should have the rights to own guns. I might hunt some day, but don’t now. I don’t own a gun for protection, just because I’m not ready to shoot anyone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/erniereggie Heather Pollard

    I have not been to WOLC in a year or two, because we’ve been going to Tim’s family’s home church, Grace. Pastor Darrell speaks quite highly of Pastor Brian, and there are no disgruntled reasons why we don’t go. We’ve been meaning to go back and visit, but we’re a little wishy-washy, in general,so our plans often go awry.

    I’ve been so very blessed by Pastor Brian’s facebook messages, because they’ve been messages of peace and compassion.

    I love this Pastor, WOLC will always be a home to me, though many of my friends from there have moved far away. (I’m ALWAYS, ALWAYS intimidated and awkward around him, but that’s because I’m an odd duck, not because of anything he’s ever done.)

    This message makes so much sense, my conservative friends, my liberal friends, and my fellow wishy-washers will probably agree with much of it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bislinks.cj Nara C JRao

    A very well thought out article. First of all, I am not talking about a game hunting gun. The purpose of legally owning a gun is not necessarily to point at an innocent person nor to go on a crazy killing spree. The purpose is to scare away an intruder. You are welcome to opine differently.

    Many big and powerful animals in the wild have big (may be sharp) horns/tusks but they do not hunt, in fact, they are vegetarian. They do not use them to kill nor do they point them at other animals. But they do look scary. The Creator, Lord Jesus has given them to them for a purpose; to scare off the intruders and to protect themselves from the predators.

    In Nehemiah 4, we see that the Israelite builders (general public) carried a weapon in one hand and carried a load in the other to build the walls of Jerusalem. THE ISRAELITES NEVER USED THEIR WEAPONS BUT THEY JUST CARRIED THEM AROUND. You know what picture it gave to their enemies? That simply scared them off.

    I am not suggesting that everyone carry a weapon but simply stating the facts. Got to go. Will continue later…..

  • Robert

    That is your choice not to….just as it is my right as a law abiding citizen to own one!

  • Danny

    Brian, I’m Melissa’s brother in law. “Trust Christ”…novel idea. I do own a gun which I have had for many years and I think I own a bullet but I’m not sure where it is. You can see that I’m really prepared for a home invasion. I am a firm believer in the fact that nothing can happen without God’s approval (ask Job), so a gun would not prove to be of any consequence. I think I’ll go find my bullet and shine it up…maybe put it in my shirt pocket…

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    But can you whistle the theme song.

    Blessings to you, Danny.

  • Mel

    Non-hunting weapons call simply be enjoyed. They aren’t always used to shoot someone. I enjoy target practice for the joy of the skill, not because I hope to shoot someone someday. I stand in awe of the engineering, the physics, the designs of weapons like the ones you mentioned. I enjoy the history of them, and I absolutely honor the constitutional right to keep and bear them. Someone…a bunch of someone’s died for my right to do that. I so enjoy honoring their sacrifice by practicing my freedom. God bless a FREE America.

  • Mel

    Amen

  • Mel

    “Therefore I stationed some of the people behind the lowest points of the wall at
    the exposed places, posting them by families, with their swords, spears and bows. After I looked things over, I stood up and said to the nobles, the officials and the rest of the people, “Don’t be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your families, your sons and your daughters, your wives and your homes.” When our enemies heard that we were aware of their plot and that God had frustrated it, we all returned to the wall, each to our own work.” Nehemiah 4:13-15

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    That may mean something to you, Mel, but since I’m not an Old Testament Israelite it means little or nothing to me.

  • Melissa

    Nice! Good blog. It’s always fun to see who is going to get their panties in a wad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bislinks.cj Nara C JRao

    These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. – I Cor 10:11

  • KBS

    Scare away? So if you show your’s first, that is enough? Doesn’t happen that way. I love this article and all the points that were made! “Unarmed, in afraid, Unashamed” think I will borrow that!

  • Vashti

    I own a gun because last Christmas I got one from my husband. Personally, I don’t depend or rely on guns for my safety. I trust God for his protection and providence. My husband however owns a lot of guns and if the zombie apocalypse ever happens, I’ll be standing behind the guy with the guns. Praise the Lord.

  • Kerrie

    I served 22 years in the military in security forces.  I carried a weapon to perform my duties and  I was trained to handle and respect my weapon.  My brother was 22 years old when he went target practicing with his best friend and died from a fatal gunshot wound to the head.  I’m a firm believer that guns should only be in the hands of law enforcement!

  • BIGD

    I guess when it all comes down..you will be the first to go…Seriously, I back the second amendment…..assault rifles should be banned, though….Everyone has the right to have or not have a gun….I throw stones at nobody BUT don,t take my right to own a gun away from me

  • http://www.facebook.com/triston.dyer Triston Dyer

    “But know this, that if the good man of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have allowed his house to be broken up.” -Jesus (Matthew 24:43)
    Sounds like the good man of the house would have done whatever was necessary to keep his family and belongings safe. That’s what Jesus taught. Are you willing to be the “good man” who will do what is necessary to protect his family?

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    So that’s what you got out of that teaching from Jesus? Well, God bless you.

  • Matt

    My family and I have experienced a these things first hand. At a time in our marriage when our family lived in apartment. One night while watching TV I kept hearing this guy beating the door to the apartment above us. I then looked out the door and up to stairs. I saw he had a gun. I then jumped back into my apt. Only to hear a scream and two gun shots. What if I would have had a gun? I could have saved those two people’s life’s. I hunt, and like to target practice. I think having a gun for protection is a good thing. Think at it like this, you say ur a Christian, but u don’t read ur bible. You have no weapon against the enemy. All throughout the old testaments, you hear of men having weapons. They hunted and protected the family at all cost.

  • http://www.facebook.com/triston.dyer Triston Dyer

    What a cop out response! The Old Testament means nothing to you? It sure meant a lot to Jesus. He lived and breathed Scripture and yet you count the Words He lived and breathed as nothing to you? Are you trying to make people lose respect for you or what?

  • Triston

    I don’t appreciate the sarcasm. I didn’t write sarcastically to you. I’m curious, from your post, if you would do nothing to protect your family from harm or if you would do what is necessary. I’m not talking about guns nor killing. It is the good man that would defend his family. It would be evil and sin to sin and do nothing to protect your wife and children from being harmed by an intruder. Do you agree, or would you sit your hands, Brian?

  • Triston

    I don’t appreciate the sarcasm, Brian. I did not write sarcastically to you. I am curious if you would do nothing to protect your family from harm by an intruder or if you would do what is necessary. I’m not talking about guns or killing. But I believe it would be evil sin to sit on your hands and do nothing while your wife or daughter is being raped. It is the good man who comes to the defense of his family, and I am curious from your post if you would come to their defense or if you would sit on your hands.

  • RevJeffRud

    Several thoughts on the article:

    1) “Secondly, I don’t own a gun because I don’t want to shoot anyone. Shotguns and hunting rifles are designed for the purpose of shooting game. Handguns and assault rifles are designed for the purpose of shooting people.” Frankly, I consider this a malicious and unwarranted attack on gun owners, Christian or otherwise. I have never met anyone who purchased a gun of ANY kind because they WANTED to shoot another human being. You are painting with an extremely broad brush around a subject that, I think, demands a bit more delicacy. I would have phrased the last sentence as “Handguns are designed for the purpose of self-defense and military-styled rifles for general sporting purposes. Both are used primarily for target shooting.” You do understand that, functionally, there is NO difference between a semi-automatic traditional hunting rifle and a semi-automatic military-style rifle, correct? They are the identical gun in different clothing. So there is no logic whatever in accepting one and decrying the other.

    2) On more than one occasion, you call on the reader to respect your choice not to own a gun: “Do you have to agree with my convictions? No. But you should respect them.” If you are truly getting flak from anyone because you DON’T own a gun, I apologize for the idiot masquerading as a responsible gun owner. I have NEVER been accosted by someone claiming it was my responsibility to own a firearm, and never heard of the unarmed being chastised for making that decision. I have had people share with me the reasons why they believe it is a good idea to own guns, but I have no problem with that. And as someone who is charged with the responsibility of doing whatever one can to persuade people of the efficacy of the Gospel, I would think you would be more understanding of those who do the same in support of something they consider important.

    3) Again, if you are actually hearing this argument, you are surrounded by weirdos losing their last veneer of sanity: “And I’m not ashamed to live unarmed. Does that make me less of a man? Oh, please. That argument makes me think someone is compensating for some insecurity.” No one is either more or less of a man because they either do or don’t own ANYTHING – gun or car or boat or chicken coop. Again, I have NEVER heard this argument from anyone defending gun rights, after living in three hunting-crazy, second-amendment-worshiping states (PA, IA, MO). This seems to me to be a mere straw man argument of the weakest kind.

    4) “I’m writing this in the moderate hope that Christians gun enthusiasts will at the very least respect their brothers and sisters who don’t share their enthusiasm.” I personally don’t know any Christian gun enthusiasts who do not respect the choices of those tho do not own weapons. I DO know a lot of them who find pseudo-Christian or semi-Christian arguments directed against gun ownership to be annoying and frustrating. That is a very different story.

    5) I saved this for last, even though it appears before the line in #4 above: “I’m not writing this to change the mind of Christian gun advocates. (I have a realistic assessment of my persuasive abilities.)” I, for one, an not convinced that this statement is really true, though I have no doubt you believe it to be true. You tell us why you don’t own a gun, speak in rather sarcastic and dismissive tones of those who present opposite views, and go so far as to link your commitment to Christ to your reasons for non-ownership: “Because, though I haven’t mentioned it yet, my commitment to following Jesus is part of my decision to live without owning lethal weapons.” From a pastor, and one with some degree of influence, that is a statement of challenge, don’t you think? If you had NO intention of attempting to influence the way the rest of us are thinking, there is really no reason to have written this piece at all. I for one, don’t even care IF you own a gun or not, much less the reasons why you don’t, and I can’t imagine that this was the most pressing issue on the minds of people in your church or in the following you have gained through your writing and speaking. The only reason for giving reasons is to convince “reasonable” people that your reasons are reasonable.

    And here is the punch line of the whole thing. I don’t own a gun either. I never have. I don’t know if I ever will or not. So my disagreement with your article is not based on the fact that I have made the opposite choice in my life; to date, I have made the same one that you have. I can’ promise that it will always be that way. I live in a neighborhood where gun violence, home invasion and the like are significantly more common than they are where you live. My job requires me to drive around at night in neighborhoods where my name would be at the end of a long line of victims. Given all that, sometimes a small handgun seems like a very comforting option. (You know what they say about non-believers in foxholes.) But whatever my choice, I will make it in private and on my own. I have strong feelings about gun ownership which I do NOT mind sharing: It is a right guaranteed to us by the constitution, and a concept about which the Scriptures are, to my understanding, ambiguous at best. This is a choice we make under the same conditions Paul suggested for the working out of our salvation – with fear and trembling.

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    OK, let me try again. We read the Hebrew Scriptures with Christ, never without Christ. Jesus is the true and full Word of God. The Old Testament is not the final Word of God, Jesus is. That’s why Jesus would countermand the Old Testament by saying things like, “You have heard it said [in the Torah], ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,’ but I say to you…”

    So a historical account of Old Testament folks carrying swords to work does not inform my faith like the Sermon on the Mount, etc. Jesus is the true Word of God. This is why the Apostle John said, “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son who is close to the Father’s heart, he has made him known.” Amen.

  • http://twitter.com/ckincincy Clarence Klopfstein

    I could have written the exact reply, with the exception that I will… one day soon, buy guns for a personal collection. I live in a very RED county and people, a lot of people, own guns. I’ve NEVER heard anybody talk down on anybody else for not owning one. Especially in a church setting. This is a poor blog post in that regard.

    Great you don’t and won’t own a gun. Now be quiet as I express my 2nd amendment right to own one. I won’t talk down on you, and you won’t talk down on me (including assuming I’m purchasing it to shoot another human).

  • Kbs

    Just my opinion, but you took one verse to try to support your argument. If you read the whole chapter beginning from where Christ begins to speak, you would know that the “self defense” or defending one’s household in verse 43 was referring to ensuring that everyone in the house was ready for Christ’s unannounced return.

  • Gene Seibel

    How do you think the fact that our nation was birthed through revolution plays into what we’ve become? The blessings we’ve experience as a nation over the years seems to indicate it was the right thing to do.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cory.skinner.3 Cory Skinner

    I think people have missed what you were trying to say :-S . Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A lot of immaturity and strong holds are being voiced. Anyway, Brian good article and I do not judge you for not owing a weapon (or for anything else for that matter). I also thought the picture you posted was pretty nifty. :-)

  • Triston

    Personally, I think it would be sin for a pacifist man to sit on his hands and pray for the cops to come quickly and do nothing himself to stop an intruder from raping or abusing the helpless. Yes. It is sin to do as a pacifist in some cases.

  • Triston

    Kbs. It is right what you say. Yet, are there not truths to be found in Scripture which are not the main point of the text?? EXAMPLE: “you have the poor with you always, and whenever you wish you may do them good” (Mark 14:7) This is certainly NOT the main point of the text. Nevertheless, it still opens up for us the truth that as far as God is concerned, we can give to the poor whenever we want. And I think similarly, a second-tier truth is found in the text I shared above about defending your home. Sorry if that truth from Jesus does not fit well with Brian’s presuppositions.

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    No one is making the point you are arguing against.

  • Triston

    Amen.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    I would like to expand upon your initial reason for not owning a gun, that being you do not hunt. Certainly, that is an understandable statement but it misses the entire point of firearm ownership. As a citizen of this nation, you have responsibilities. One of those is to be an active participant in patriotism.

    Our founders realized that all governments are subject to corruption and tyranny. The one they established for us is no different. YOU, as a citizen, should feel obligated to see our government adheres to the constitutional structure upon which it is established. To ensure this ability, our founders “reiterated” a few of our God-given rights within the text of our Constitution. The 1st amendment is first for a reason. The ability to speak out in difference to government tyranny is a powerful weapon. Exposing corruption to the light of day can provide a great degree of restraint to those who would otherwise freely become dictators. It has, however, become common practice for our government to label opposition as extremists in an effort to justify their expanding abuse of power. The 2nd amendment ensures, in the face of government force and propaganda, we will always have the right to speak out. Pretty simple to understand.

    The point being, our right of firearm ownership is not based on something so unimportant as hunting, sport shooting or collecting. The right to bear arms is specifically protected to give our citizens the ability to resist, overthrow if necessary, our own government. This is hardly an outrageous thought, given that our nation was birthed on that same option. It should go without saying, the thought of facing our military with a revolver is quite ludicrous. It should also go without saying, we should be encouraging our citizens to own personal firearms suitable for military conflict.

    To your second point, I don’t want to shoot anyone either. I also don’t want to see my wife or daughter beaten and raped by any number of uncivilized monsters. Yes, I would shoot these types without flinching if I had no alternative. Most of us will go though life without confronting such a horrible experience but many of us still prepare for the possibility. Do you own flood insurance? Do you have a box of band-aids in your house? Then don’t belittle those of us who have likewise chosen to be prepared.

    To say that you have placed your safety in the hands of police is dangerously humorous at best. What do you plan to do in the minutes between your 911 call and their arrival? Is seeing your family assaulted for only a little while somehow acceptable to you? As a husband and father, you are failing your family in this matter. As a pastor you are placing your flock in grave danger. God forbid that your family, or the families of those you convince to remain disarmed, are ever placed in this situation. God forgive you if they are.

    Please try to understand, as a free citizen, I do not require a “need” or any other justification for owning firearms. I have a RIGHT and, as I mentioned, an obligation as a citizen. I respect that you have chosen not to do so, although I believe it brings your patriotism into question.

    Finally, you are unarmed, unafraid and unashamed. Good for you. Because many of us are armed, willing to confront threats and proud to be functional citizens, you can ride in that wagon while we pull you along. Nothing has changed, as we have been saddled with free-loaders since our inception. Enjoy the ride if you like but please stop complaining about the service.

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    Dear Robert,

    I would say we are not remotely on the same page. Our view of the kingdom of would appear to be worlds apart. I think we’ll just have to leave it at that.

    Peace,

    BZ

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    Zombies? Really? Tell me more.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    Brian,

    I understand you have armed security. So, you can stand on your soapbox and proclaim that you will not kill another. Funny how you have someone else lined up to handle that little problem if it arises. Somehow that is all too typical with those who decry my right to protect myself.

    Peace to you as well.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rod-Sears/100000446671733 Rod Sears

    I fully understand why you dont own a gun, what I dont understand is asking people to leave your church for not tything?

  • http://brianzahnd.com Brian Zahnd

    Rod,

    We would never do anything like that. Nothing remotely like that has ever happened. Period.

  • http://profiles.google.com/ninjaaron Aaron Christianson

    Why I don’t own a gun: expensive and useless. The only useless expensive things I buy are gadgets and occasionly music equiptiment. Maybe I’ll buy a gun after I finish accumulating all the gadgets and music equiptment. It’s the only econoimcally responsible way to proceed.

  • Philip

    There are two baseball bats in the plastic container on the middle shelf against the south wall in the garage. I would go with the silver one if you ever have to.

  • RevJeffRud

    Brian -

    This would be the guy I said I had never encountered before who would make some of the arguments you raised in your post. Having now met him, I will say this: (1) People participate in patriotism in many, many ways. Not owning a gun is not anti-patriotic, though I am not sure from reading your posts that “patriotism” as it is generally understood, is not something you would consider a virtue. (2) I would agree – to one level or another – with all of the basic concepts in his arguments, but not to the fullest extent to which he carries some of them. I am convinced that an extreme position in what would normally be considered a “right” direction can be just as wrong as any position in the wrong direction. (3) I have no more confidence of my powers of persuasion on this issue than you claimed in your original post, so I will not make any attempt to “reframe” this gentleman’s arguments in the light in which I would prefer to have them seen. There are calmer ways to make those arguments, without the ad hominem atttacks, but I am sure you have heard those too! Blessings!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rod-Sears/100000446671733 Rod Sears

    Let me just say, I attended your church for about 3-4 months because I was going through some difficult times and some friends invited me out. Awesome church and sermons, hadnt been to church since I was a kid until invited out there. You are a great Pastor. It was brought to my attention that I wasnt tything and I informed whoever the person was that I was unemployed and raising my 3 kids on unemployment as a single father and was informed that maybe I shouldnt come out until I had my finances in line. I am sorry if that isnt the case for your church, but, it did happen.

  • RevJeffRud

    Jesus’ statements concerning the Law were NOT countermands, but extensions – even this one! – and there is a serious difference between the two. Just as in the passages where he goes from the act – don’t commit adultery, don’t murder, etc. – to the thoughts and intents of the heart – don’t lust, don’t hate, etc. – the same is true here. The lex talionis was a RESTRICTION on the amount of retribution allowable, NOT a command to take that level of retribution whenever possible; Jesus’ following statement restricted it still further – instead of taking even the smallest measure of revenge, which would be permissible under the Law, why not just leave ALL judgment and retribution to God? Comparable concept in the New Testament might be to turn the other cheek.

    I do not believe this approach does any harm to either Testament, or to a proper theology based on a proper understanding of BOTH. One should never make doctrine out of history, no matter which Testament contains that history. But as one earlier comment suggested, these things happened unto them as examples unto us. (I Cor. 10:11); our responsibility is to find the truth about which the example teaches. The fact that weapons were not only used but commanded by God in the Old Testament gives us a picture that they, were, in fact, part of God’s plan, just as the destruction of all the peoples of the Promised Land foreshadowed the removal of all evil from our ultimate home. Their disappearance and destruction in the final kingdom does not come about because they are evil, but because they are unnecessary.

    Yes, we understand the Old Testament in the light shed by Christ. But that doesn’t change the truths of the Old Testament into something different than they were. Christianity is now, and has always been, a “sect” of Judaism. The early Christians knew that; it is only we Gentiles that seem to have forgotten it…

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    Perhaps my last post was aimed a little too directly. Let me rephrase my remarks.

    I find it personally offensive to be told I should not be armed – by someone who lives behind a wall of security. President Obama says having armed school guards is not the answer for America, yet his children attend a school with those very same armed guards. For the rest of his life, he will have armed security. I don’t see how this level of shameless hypocrisy deserves meaningful consideration.

    Admittedly, I have very strong feelings on this topic and have no inclination to apologize for those convictions. I suspect the strength of my beliefs would have been common place at the time of our founding. I stand comfortably with our founders and suggest those who disagree have strayed from the path of history.

    I would ask all to consider the importance of our right to bear arms – military equivalent arms – as reiterated and intended by the 2nd Amendment. This right is the pillar of the US Constitution. When this right is taken away, there is absolutely nothing left to enforce the rest of the document.

  • KatieCasey

    Great blog,Pastor! You have literraly never said something that i didnt agree with 100%. I so appriciate you, because you feed my soul. Thank you for teaching peace, love, & compashion. You’re brilliant. Your knowledge about the Bible and what it means to be a Christian, is second to none (in my humble opinion). Read your books,watch your live-streams, follow on twitter,fb…blahblahblah..and love all that you have to say. It just… makes sense, that is the only way i know to describe it. You just ‘get’ it, man & thats fantastic. Husband &i are seriously considering selling what we have here and moving to MO. Thinking it may happen this summer. Anyways, thankyou for speaking out about things even when you know that it may ruffle some feathers & come back to you. You’re a good man, doing whats right, with honest intentions. So many people are blessed by you. I am one. GodBlessYou

  • Michael

    I’m surprised the positive side of the curve didn’t use Luke 22 : 35-36 (red letters of coarse) I know the argument against; just saying for the sake of a better retort than the gunners have used thus far…

  • Jennifer

    Hi Brian,

    This is the first blog post of yours that I’ve read. A friend tweeted it and it intrigued me.

    I don’t own a gun either–yet. I’m currently shopping for my first. I’m a single woman, living alone. I’ve had TWO friends attacked. The first was jogging in a wooded park, on a populated trail, in broad daylight. He tried to rape her and when she fought back, he stabbed her 3 times. She almost died. The other is actually now part of my family (she married my cousin). She’s a nurse and was returning home from her 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. shift. A man grabbed her and beat the crap out of her as she was going for her key to unlock the door to her own apartment. Luckily a neighbor heard her scream and came out and the guy ran off. He was never caught.

    My dad is a retired police officer. I grew up around guns. Having guns in the house with 2 kids around was never an issue. We had the fear of God put in us never to go near them. And we didn’t. When we were old enough, my dad taught us proper gun safety. I still didn’t really want to go near them though.

    But now, I’m older and I’ve had some life experiences. I’ve often wondered what I would do if someone broke into my house, if I was attacked in the parking garage at the mall…if, God forbid, someone started shooting up the movie theater I happened to be in.

    No law abiding gun owner buys a gun and WANTS to kill someone. I have ZERO desire to kill another human being. But I’m telling you right now, if my body or my life is in danger, I want to be able to defend myself. I have that right as an American citizen without a criminal record–as does every other American citizen without a criminal record.

    Reading your post, it sounds like you have felt attacked by other gun owners. I’m sorry. I believe my right to have a gun is no different that your right not to. Gun owners or “enthusiasts” honestly don’t care if you don’t want to own a gun. That’s your prerogative. But assuming that all gun owners want to do is shoot people is irresponsible and assumptive. I found that statement to be offensive. When I do buy a gun, I hope and pray the only place I ever have to shoot it is at the gun range.

    If you don’t want to have a gun, then by all means, don’t buy one. But don’t lump all gun owners into the category of “killers.” It’s not fair. It’s a rush to judgment on something you’ve admitted you really know nothing about–kind of like criticizing a book before you’ve read it.

  • Irene

    I love and respect your logic as well as your commitment. It seems mentally and holistically healthy. There IS room for respect and different opinions. It is not emotional to disagree. It is just another, important viewpoint that is also valid. Thank you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/triston.dyer Triston Dyer

    “Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.” -Jesus (Luke 22:36)

  • CCCinWNC

    I share a LOT of the same sentiments that this man has very succinctly articulated. If God is “for”us,who can (ultimately) be against us. Our lives (as believers, followers,learners of Christ) are in the very palms of the hands of God. And my God is a very BIG and POWERFUL God Who is “well” able to care for and protect me and my family as he has for all my 52+ years on the Earth. If other “responsible”, up-standing and honest citizens in the USA desire to and acquire guns I have no problem with that. I “too” have simply chosen to live as peaceably as I can in a “fallen” and often very unpredictably cruel and violent world while trusting in my God (Who can do anything and everything EXCEPT fail) to fulfill His promises to take care of me and my family.

  • John

    Thanks, similar to my heart. Though I own a few, they are stored. I cannot imagine taking up arms against anyone

  • Daniel Lemus

    Someone offered me a couple of times a gun as a present. He understood why I turned down his offering; this guy tried a second time, and I don’t know why I had a second thought different from the first one, and I decided to stick to the first choice.
    There was a time a was needing money and I thought if I had accepted that gun I could go and sell it in a pawn shop, but thank God, He supplied my need.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=707999275 Jeff White

    If elimating guns were the answer, nobody would be upset.

    I don’t own any myself, but it’s the principle of banning them that bothers me. We, as a nation, have had no problem for over 200-years allowing citizens to arm themselves. It’s actually in the constitution, not as a means to sport hunt, or for recreation. The forefathers of our nation had just fought to leave a tyrannical and oppressive government. The reason they included the right to keep and bear arms, was to prevent a Nazi-type takeover of the young nation from within the government.

    If I thought taking guns away would work…I’d be all for it. However, drugs are illegal and most law abiding citizens don’t do them. It’s the ones that do that cause the issues. The same would hold true for guns if they were illegal. A gun ban wouldn’t stop the crazy-people from committing heinous acts.

    It’s funny to me that the entire country is fixated on guns, when 95% of the mass-killers have been using some type of SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitors). These drugs have a proven side-effect that causes some people to have a dramatic change in thought and behavior. It goes virtually unnoticed.

    http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

    There’s a host of other issues…fragmented familes, video games, lack of discipline in the home are some that come to mind. If we really want to fix the issue…we need to address all the issues.

  • Careful in MO

    I trust God, too. I also have household insurance, health insurance and a gun.

  • James Gee

    I think ice axes should be banned. Think of all the people who are killed using them to climb mountains. They are dangerous. When some one is lost or killed on a mountain the cost for the search parties is enormous. We spend millions of dollars because someone is using an ice axe to climb someplace they were not meant to be. I definately thing there should be federal laws banning ice axes. They have been used to kill people. Just think if you were on a mountain and some crazy with an ice axe attacked you. I bet you would wish you had a gun then.

  • Nida

    I attended Word of Life Church for 17 years and I can vouch that I have never heard Pastor Brian or anyone in leadership at WOLC ever say or promote anything remotely like that that.

  • ColoradoRobert

    It’s interesting that Jesus tells His disciples to sell their clothes and go buy a sword (Luke 22:36). Be prepared, in other words. And since we know murder has been in the hearts of man from the beginning (see Cain in Genesis), we should do whatever we think is necessary to protect ourselves and I believe God is ok with it. What is really lacking today (in my opinion) is Wisdom in regards to law and justice. How we should be punishing criminals. Please listen to my Pastor’s intro discussion about God’s criminal justice system. I am in Colorado BTW. Cut and paste this link:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTAG5ITeqEQ&feature=youtu.be

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    Excellent post, Brian. And, your reasons for not owning a gun are primarily my reasons too. However, I would add that our King, our Savior, and our Lord Jesus walked without weapons. In fact, He had every opportunity to reign down heaven upon Pilate and his boys if He wanted to in self defense. But, He didn’t. He could have relied on His twelve core men to protect Him too. But, He didn’t. In fact, if I’m not mistaken He even told Peter to put his sword (it was actually a scabbard) away. Stephen, had every right to pull a sword on his attackers in self defense. But, he didn’t. Much of the early church had a right to take up a sword against the Roman persecution. But, they didn’t.

    The main reason why I choose not to own a gun is that my spiritual ancestors, along with my King chose not to carry one, and in fact He spoke out against it. Besides, somewhere in the Bible (I believe 2 Corinthians) Paul reminds us that our weapons are not of this world. So, why carry a false sense of security around that we call a gun when the real trouble lies in the spiritual realm.There are many more references in Scripture that tell me not to pack and carry. And, as a disciple of Christ, I want to obey. Therefore, this is the reason I too choose not to own a gun.

    Blessings and peace.

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    Using Luke 22:36 to justify gun ownership is very bad exegesis and hermeneutics. I can get into a long essay about what this verse really means. But, one thing I can tell you, it has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    The magnitude of idolatry between American Christians and their guns is absolutely astonishing to me. Please Lord, have mercy upon us.

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  • Dan Lyons

    Very well written. I do wish you would write a piece directed at the non-gun owners, Christian and heathen alike, encouraging them to respect us and our beliefs, just as you encouraged us to respect them. We are not forcing our likes on you, but they are forcing their beliefs on us. God Bless.

  • Guest

    Andy Griffith didn’t carry a gun.
    Mahatma Gandhi didn’t probably didn’t own a gun.
    Paul Revere probably owned a gun.
    Just sayin

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1354200505 Douglas Hartwell

    Andy Griffith didn’t carry a gun.
    Mahatma Gandhi probably didn’t own a gun.
    Paul Revere probably owned a gun.
    …Just some thoughts.

  • ColoradoRobert

    To me the Bible shows beyond a shadow of a doubt
    that God allowed His people to defend themselves against attackers. Murder has
    been in mankinds heart from the beginning and it will be there until the end. So
    the quote from our Lord (Luke 22:36), seems to fit with what God has done
    throughout the Bible (specific or not). Now if your intention (Greg Dill), is
    for God’s people to rely on God more (than their Uzi), I’m with you on that.
    There needs to be balance for sure. But let’s not make the mistake and say
    God’s people can’t defend themselves with weapons. I look at present day Israel
    knowing that they must defend themselves. Are you a Quaker or just anti-gun?

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  • Darin G

    “The events in the Garden of Gethsemane and the commands of Jesus there teach the Apostles nonaggression, so Luke 22:36 does not permit violence. He said to Peter: “For all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Matt. 26:52). Peter and the others heard those words that clarify the use of swords. Therefore, a lifestyle of the sword must not be part of the disciples’ new walk with the resurrected Christ, as they preached his message of hope.”

    http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/luke_22_36.htm

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  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    So, are you saying that anyone who is the victim of violent crime must not be a Christian? Here’s a tip for you – Christians are raped and murdered every day. I visited a church a few years ago and the pastor started his remarks by saying Christians would not get the flu – if they were “real” Christians. Needless to say, I stood up and walked out by the time he finished the sentence. He was a dangerous moron. When we became Christians, we did not become immune to the ills and sins of this world. Neither did we sign a pact to allow ourselves to be preyed upon by thugs. Christ first came into this world to be a sacrifice but when he returns do you think he will sit down over coffee with the anti-Christ?

  • Triston

    “But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his
    household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an
    unbeliever.” 1Tim. 5:8

    Do you think Paul is only concerned with us providing food and shelter? Would he not also include providing protection and safety for one’s household as well? Those who refuse to protect their wife and children are worse than unbelievers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nutzn-Vise/100003124687831 Nutzn Vise

    Greg, I was just wondering. Do you feel that same magnitude of idolatry when you observe Christians practicing free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of worship, or freedom of the press? Just because you are afraid of firearms, or afraid of facing your obligations as a citizen or husband, please don’t confuse your weakness with logical reasoning.

  • RevJeffRud

    The magnitude of idolatry between American Christians and their homes and their cars is absolutely astonishing to ME! Do you not feel that as well? Please Lord, have mercy upon THEM – which is what you really meant, since you are obviously not a gun owner…

  • RevJeffRud

    I would suggest that there is a difference between “a lifestyle of the sword” as you characterize it, and ownership of a sword. The lives of the vast majority of gun-owners do not revolve around their weapons. I would also point out that in Luke 3:14, John the Baptist advises soldiers – obviously Roman soldiers, since Israel/Judea would not have had an army under Roman occupation – not to intimidate anyone with their position, and presumably their weapons, NOT to leave the “lifestyle of the sword” that a soldier’s life most certainly was and is. Are we to assume that this was a falsehood that crept into the Scriptures by accident, or is it’s inclusion here an indication that soldiering and the weapons involved in soldiering are acceptable when kept in proper balance? Might working out one’s own salvation with fear and trembling be the best advice here?

  • RevJeffRud

    One additional point. Let’s think Matthew 26:52 through shall we? If this was a literal passage – any more than Luke 22:36 – we have a real problem – IT IS NOT TRUE! There have been millions of people who have lived violent lives that have died peacefully in bed. This is an example of educational hyperbole – exaggeration to make a point. It is undoubtedly best understood as a generalization along the lines of “Violence begets violence,” not a blanket prohibition of weapons in any sense.

  • RevJeffRud

    Agreed. See my note above concerning Matthew 26:52 in the same regard concerning the opposite side of this argument.

  • RevJeffRud

    You really should deal with scriptures in their proper context. I support gun ownership, but I cannot support misuse of the scriptures like this just to suit your own purposes.

  • RevJeffRud

    Answered above. The scripture you mention, in its proper context, has NOTHING to do with gun ownership, and to try to make it do so is the worst, most disingenuous use of the scriptures imaginable.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    “Guest” … I certainly don’t want to imply the pastor isn’t worthy of your praise. Even though I believe he is dangerously mistaken in his current blog, I find many of his sermons to be highly intellectual and quite thought provoking.

    Having said that, please go back and read your post – several times if necessary – and let it sink in. Your fervor reminds me of a Jim Jones or David Koresh follower. NEVER worship the man and, in this, I expect pastor Brian to be in full agreement.

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  • Timothy Conard

    if you have honestly never heard anyone impugn another’s manhood for not owning a firearm, you haven’t read very deeply into these responses…

  • Timothy Conard

    triston,
    i do not believe that your post was sarcastic. it was an attempt to call those who disagree with you cowardly and evil, but not in a sarcastic way.
    the best response i can make to your argument is simply to state that, at the age of 50, neither i nor anyone i personally know nor anyone that has come through the small town er i work at has ever been in the situation you describe.

  • Timothy Conard

    if i might ask, as a stalwart supporter of the second amendment, which state militia are you a member of and in what way is your firearm ownership regulated?

  • Timothy Conard

    with due respect to your fact raising skills, i would point out that the school the president’s children .attend has about the same level of armed security as the high school my daughters attended. here’ it was a uniformed police resource officer. there it is, based on staff size, most likely one or two armed security personnel who function as police while they are on school property. these are easy facts to check, snopes.com has links and the actual staff numbers.

  • Timothy Conard

    the thing about an ice axe is that you can’really carry out a good massacre with one. range is limited and it is easy for two or three people to rush you. an assault rifle with a 30 or 50 round clip is an entirely different matter.

  • Arondos

    I am a gun owner. While I may not agree with your choice, I respect it. I have zero problem with anybody who doesn’t feel they need to have a gun.. But when you tell me I can not have one because of your beliefs I have a problem with it.

    I grew up in a household where there were guns. My Dad was a police officer. I spent twenty years active duty. I’m retired now and I shoot to relax like some people play golf. Couple of my buddies at work joke and call it “recoil therapy.” I’ve never seen a gun hurt anybody and cars don’t cause accidents.

    The tools thing. I own a fire extinguisher but I am not a fire man.. I own a first aid kit but am not an EMT or a Doctor. I also know how to use an AED and I know CPR. I own a gun but am not a policeman. I would be perfectly happy to go through life knowing how to use all of the above without ever having to apply that knowledge. If the day comes I need one of these tools to keep myself, my family or someone else alive I want to be ready and trained to properly use them safely.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except
    for a few public officials.” — George Mason, in Debates in Virginia
    Convention on Ratification of the Constitution

    “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then,
    that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress
    shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every
    other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an
    American … The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of
    either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it
    will ever remain, in the hands of the People.” — Tench Coxe, 1788

    So, to answer your questions;

    I am one of the “people”, therefore I am part of the militia as understood and intended by our founders.

    As
    for being regulated, are you not following the news? Bans of so-called
    assault weapons, defined by look and not by function are clearly an
    affront to my rights. Requiring permits, when my right supercedes the
    authority of government.to require them is yet another. I wonder if you
    would support needing a government issued permit to express your
    opinions in this forum.

    The “facts” are pretty simple. All
    citizens of this nation are part of the militia. We the “people” have
    the right to own and bear arms suitable for resistance to tyranny.

    I
    would add a thought of my own – A government that fears its people is
    justified in that fear. Lest you misunderstand, it means a government
    that exceeds its constitutional authority should face the real
    possibility of being removed from power.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    Am I missing something here? What is your point?

    I’m glad your children had armed security. How does that alter the fact that Obama has stated he is not in favor – all while his children are so protected?

    Our leaders should be forced to live under the same laws they put upon us. As I recall, all attempts to codify this equality into law have failed.

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    Luke 22:36 is the most commonly cited Scripture passage by Christians who advocate the ownership and usage of guns. Little do they know this passage has nothing to do with carrying and using weapons.

    The swords mentioned in this passage are not the military style of weapons commonly used among Roman soldiers. The Greek word for “sword” used in this passage is “macheira”. A macheira is closer to a knife than an actual fighting instrument. These knives were the equivalent of what we would call a utility knife today. And these knives were used for cutting nets, fish, or skinning animals for clothing and food preparation. They were rarely, if ever, used as a weapon and especially not used for killing people. This, not to mention that the Roman government would not allow common Jewish citizens to carry weapons that could potentially harm others, but also overtake the Roman occupation of Israel. So, when Jesus was telling His disciples to carry a sword, in addition to a purse and a bag, He wasn’t commanding them to pack some heat a la Clint Eastwood style, He was merely equipping them for their journeys as itinerant disciples.

  • RevJeffRud

    First off, read my other post on here and you will realize that I don’t support the use of Luke 22:36 for gun ownership – I just refuse to acknowledge it as a PROHIBITIVE of gun ownership. That being said, your choice of definition here is highly selective. I don’t have access to my commentaries at the moment, but I could easily provide you with a number of references to this passage which expand on that “utility knife definition” sufficiently. Lacking that, I will share the non-religious (meaning, “no theological axe to grind”) definition from Wikkipedia: “Makhaira (Ancient Greek: μάχαιρα (mákhaira, plural mákhairai), also transliterated machaira ormachaera; a Greek word, related to μάχη (mákhē) “a battle”, μάχεσθαι (mákhesthai) “to fight”, from PIE *magh-) is a term used by modern scholars to describe a type of ancient bladed weapon, generally a large knife or SWORD with a single cutting edge.” (empnasis mine). It acknowledges that Homer used it in reference to smaller knives, but if the root word really means “battle” or “to fight” as presented, that can hardly be considered the primary meaning of the word. Young’s Analytical gives just one meaning – “a fighting weapon, sword”, totally passing off your alternate reading. In other words, there is no proof here, at best just some more fodder for the debate. You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to… (To be honest, though – the picture of Peter attacking the servant with a Swiss army knife is an interesting one, to say the least.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhaira

    Concerning what the Roman government permitted or didn’t permit – was there not a group of revolutionaries known as the Zealots who practiced guerrilla warare against the Romans? I doubt that utility knives were sufficient for their purposes. What the government permits and what the people possess are often two very different things.

    I respect principled Christian pacifism – John Howard Yoder, I am sure you know – is brilliant and persuasive on the subject. I personally believe it is a calling – like celibacy – to some, an option for others, a requirement for none. Can we agree on that?

  • Donna

    I am unaware that American soldiers were involved in a war over the right to bear arms. If that is the case, could someone tell me which war that was?

  • brian

    thanks, i agree (and am intentionally avoiding all other comments)

  • Jon

    Interesting…I own several guns of many different sizes, I have never had to use one of them in self defense, I am a hunter. I also thoroughly enjoy shooting, target, skeet, etc…that would be hard to do if I did not own a gun. I use to own golf clubs, realized I can’t golf so I don’t own them any longer. I wonder do you own knives, pocket knife, survival knife, kitchen knife…I’m not a chef but I do own knives. It’s easy for someone to say if my home were invaded and someone pointed a gun to my head I would not try and hurt them to save my own life, but what if they hold a gun to your child’s head or your grandchild spending the night. It’s hard to imagine you not using that ice axe (were it accessible) in order to save that child’s life.
    In reference to Donna and the “war over the right to bear arms” that is related to the revolutionary war, however in general anytime you fight a war it is maintain your freedom or someone elses.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    Donna, ever heard of the American Revolution? One of the first battles of the war was in Concord, where the British were coming to confiscate or destroy our military supplies – that includes firearms.

    The “militia”, average everyday citizens, fought that battle for your freedom.

    Since then, our military has engaged in numerous conflicts wherein a loss could well have led to the end of our Constitution and an end to all the rights you carelessly take for granted.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    As an aside to all the firearm comments, I’ll just add my general perspective on the larger picture.

    It is my experience, that while I love and worship God, that doesn’t equate to His blanket protection from bad things happening to me, or disrupting my life. I have learned that God gives us the strength to overcome the bad, not a force-field of immunity from that bad.

    My wife, also a Christian, died at the early age of 44. Should I abandon my faith and live a life of anger that God failed her? Not hardly. Instead, I give thanks that He healed her in her passing and that she is now with the Lord.

    We utilized the resources that were available to us to restore her health, prayer, medical professionals and family. Was going to the hospital a demonstration of our lack of faith? Absolutely not.

    I have great fear for those who believe they will never be victims of poor health or crime, due to the simple fact they are saved children of God. What will you do when something goes wrong in your life? Blame God? Abandon your faith as useless?

    I will always look to God for my inner strength and for the peace of my soul. And, in the matter of using a firearm for defense, His assistance with accurate aim.

  • Donna

    Not me – I’m not an American :) My point is that the right to own guns is part of living a free life, but it is only a part, it isn’t the whole point. From what I understand, the American Revolution wasn’t about gun ownership, it was about the freedom of a group of people to chose their own form of governance, laws and taxation. Gun ownership was a part, but only a small part of the reason for that war.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    In Concord, they were coming for the arms. They knew that disarming the people would make them helpless. Yes, certainly, there were additional issues but Concord was about the arms.

    To your point about the role of firearm ownership – Citizens own firearms – Peasants do not.

    The United States has become the most powerful nation in the history of the world for 2 reasons. First, we placed God above ourselves. Second, we recognized and protected the rights of our people. Conversely, the United States is collapsing from within because both are no longer true.

    What we have wasted, what we have surrendered through fear and laziness, what we no longer deserve, will eventually be restored at the cost of the blood of our children. The least we can do is make sure we pass along their right to the tools they will need.

  • RevJeffRud

    I indicated in one of my later responses that I had, indeed, found that person on this very site – a most disappointing find, to say the least. I need, of course, to modify that statement to this: I have not found that argument among the coherent, adult responses to the question. I consider persons using that kind of logic to be equivalent to the man who buys a Lamborghini to prove his manhood.

  • RevJeffRud

    And don’t forget, Robert, (Yes, I am supporting THIS argument!) that the word “regulated” meant something totally different in that historical era than today. Like many meanings, it has shifted significantly, just as “intercourse” which originally was a synonym for “conversation” or “dialogue” has now been relegated almost entirely to a sexual term totally unlike it’s original meaning. “Regulated” in that day meant “supplied” or “equipped”, not “restrained” or “controlled” as today. A contemporary rendering of the amendment would read “A well-supplied militia…” Words have meanings, but they don’t always stay the same…

  • Eli

    Seems like sound rationale to me, Brian.

    Why do guns exist? (I have not researched this but am simply using reasonable logic)

    1) To shoot game
    2) To shoot people

    I could add “recreation” as some of you have made rational cases for that. However, I don’t think that is an adequate answer to “Why do guns exist?”

    So, in light of this, if an individual 1) does not hunt or 2) does not want to shoot anyone under any circumstance, it seems reasonable that said person would not own a gun or need to.

  • Handsfull

    So when you’re talking about peasants, what is the modern equivalent? Illegal immigrants? Because everyone else in the US is a citizen. So why are you talking about peasants not being able to own guns? Nobody is saying that all guns are going to be taken away from everyone, they are saying that there needs to be some restrictions on the type of guns available to the general public. What on earth is wrong with that? The mission of the British soldiers to Concord may have been to destroy firearms. That was one of the first battles in a war, not the whole war itself. The point of the war was not to protect the right to own guns, it was for liberty and freedom from a government that was harsh and that the people had no say in. I’m stopping here, because we’re talking past each other :)

  • Donna

    Sorry, in case you’re wondering, ‘Handsfull’ is ‘Donna’!

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    ……..

    Donna, I believe you have responded out of an abundance of emotion because your comments/questions are a bit erratic.

    You missed the point of “peasants” in its entirety. One would become a peasant with the loss of the right to bear arms.

    The issue isn’t about “all” guns being taken away. The issue is the government has no authority to take ANY guns away. One is too many. And, no, there should be absolutely ZERO restrictions on the type of firearms a citizen could own – and without registering that ownership. Please note, the 2nd Amendment does NOT create a right. It only reiterates an existing right for the purpose of establishing a clear protection from government interference. The intent of the founders in expressly itemizing this precious right was to always provide the people with the means of removing the government if necessary. Logic, and their practice, dictate that one would need firearms suited to the task. It would be somewhat ludicrous to face a military opponent with a revolver.

    You speak of the Concord battle for “liberty and freedom” as though those concepts are somehow disconnected from our unalienable rights – including the right to bear arms. It is somewhat problematic to set aside certain of those rights on a whim.

  • ColoradoRobert

    Hey Darin, many Pacifists build their doctrinal stance on, “You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other one to them also (Jesus – Matt. 5:38-39).”

    Pacifists have an unworkable interpretation of this passage. Imagine applying it to a woman being raped? Does a father tell his daughter, “don’t resist the rapist honey?” Remember, Jesus said, ‘Love your enemy and if he wants you for one hour, stay with him for two.’ * Perverse? Yes it is. And it brings to mind also when a Quaker Church
    (Friends Church), was sued and they gave up doing what Jesus said there also. They did not pay their accuser twice of what the court said.

    Picking and choosing principals to fit our situations is very common. I’ve done it and might do it again… but for now, I repent.

    So what’s up with this teaching? Was Jesus telling people that they could not defend themselves? Many people falsely presume that this is a New Testament teaching which opposes Old Testament teachings. However, the command to avoid personal vengeance (for minor things and/or things that could be taken before the legal authorities), was just as applicable in the Old Testament as it is in the New. ~ Example: “Do not say, ‘I will do to him just as he has done to me; I will render to the man according to his work (Prov. 24:29).” * But rather bring the charge before the authorities is the meaning.

    Pulling ‘slap’ from the verse too. A slap “on your right cheek” would
    normally be a back-handed slap for such a thing as an insult. While a punch to the face would be a crime. If the person punched feared for their life and there was no time to seek the Police, I believe the person has every right to defend themselves and I think our corrupt government would agree. I remember they (the government) are in place by God. So what is Jesus teaching and what did the O.T. teach? I believe… take the situation before the authorities. But… if time does not allow and the situation could be lethal, defend yourself. It just makes sense. And sometimes I don’t think God is against that.

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    Luke 22:36 is the most commonly cited Scripture passage by Christians who advocate the ownership and use of guns. Little do they know this passage has nothing to do with using violence, carrying weapons, or self defense.

    The swords mentioned in this passage are not the military style of weapons commonly used among Roman soldiers of their day. The Greek word for sword used in this passage is “macheira”. A macheira is a long-bladed knife, the equivalent of what we would call a utility knife today. These knives were used for cutting nets, fish, or skinning animals for clothing and food preparation. They were rarely, if ever, used as a weapon and especially not used for killing people. This, not to mention that the Roman government would not allow common Jewish citizens to carry weapons that could potentially harm others, but also overtake the Roman occupation of Israel. If Jesus were commanding His disciples to carry and use swords for the purpose of fighting or self defense, this would only contradict other New Testament passages (including His own teaching) that say otherwise (see Matthew 5:39, 5:43-45, 26:52-53; Luke 6:27-29; John 18:36; Romans 12:17-21; 2 Corinthians 10:3-4; Ephesians 6:12; 1 Peter 2:23). So, when Jesus was telling His disciples to carry a sword, in addition to a purse and a bag, He wasn’t commanding them to pack some heat a la Clint Eastwood style, He was merely equipping them for their journeys as itinerant disciples because they would need them.

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    Well said, Rev. And with this we will have to amicably and humbly disagree on the matter. I don’t think it’s a choice. I believe it is Jesus’ call to all of His disciples. We can’t be selective with the biblical text. Nevertheless, what I think we CAN agree on is that it is a secondary issue and not a fundamental of faith worth splitting over.

  • Glock34girl

    Funny… Of all four competitive shooting pistols that I purchased and own… I never once purchased them thinking…. Sweet! Iam gonna shoot someone. In fact, I never looked at them like they were designed to kill some one as you stated. In fact, my service in the military and federal law enforcement taught me to respect my peices and I never once looked at them like they were soley designed to kill a human. Live passively, that’s cool but don’t paint the picture that everyone that owns a handgun has purchased it because they want to kill a human. That thought is horrendous but yes, if someone enters my home and I cannot flee or my family cannot flee and I have no other option… Iam not waiting for a cop to show up nearly ten minutes later which is the average response time for our area. No. I will protect my family and my life at all cost. Assuming that someone else will do that for me… not going to happen. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if all the thieves were plugging your name into spokeo right now to get your address for a little B and E since they now know you are only able to defend yourself with the jaw of an ass burried in a closet. I own a gun because I like to compete but I also own them because I don’t want people thinking Iam easy pray. I want to go to a theater knowing Iam not a sitting duck or go to a shopping center knowing I have better odds than the unarmed and yes I want to go to church knowing that I have a better chance of coming out alive if something does go down. You may not have the mind set to catarry a gun for sport or protection but don’t suggest that those that do carry do so because they want to kill.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    Wow – that was refreshing. Thank you for chiming in.

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    Just the thought that you are thinking through all of the “what ifs” of a home break-in and using your “piece” is a good sign that you HAVE thought about the possibility of killing someone someday. Gun owners live in perpetual fear. They live in perpetual fear of tyranny and perpetual fear of a thief, burglar, or gunman. Their faith, trust, and assurance is not placed in the One whom we should cast all fears to, instead it is cast upon a gun.

  • WagingLove

    I’m totally fine with your choices. More than that, I applauid you for having thought through this and made a purposeful choice. I’ve done the same. Do you mind terribly if I choose a different path? Do you mind that I have a constitutional right to do so? I’ll let you live your way and respect you. Please let me live my way.

  • WagingLove

    And when this government becomes harsh and we have no say? Shall we “vote” the tyrants out? It isn’t like that scenario–a liberty giving government becomes a tyrannical dictatorship–hasn’t played out over and over in the past 100 years. Many of us see our present government speeding down that same path. I don’t mind if you want to be disarmed, but I’d like to keep my constitutional right effective.

  • WagingLove

    Do you feel the same about our society killing 55 million babies largely for the inconvenience they would present to the mother? I’m guessing you do. I pray with you, Lord, please have mercy upon us.

  • Glock34girl

    Clearly you missed my point. It isn’t my WANT or desire to kill anyone. Have I thought out situations? Yes, that is what responsible gun owners do. Do I live in perpetual fear…. NO! I move along and do what I got to do. although, I do dislike narrow minded views that would state that because I own a gun I have no faith in God. It’s not your thoughts and opinions that are caustic. It’s your blanket assumption and opinion without knowing a lick about me other than I own a gun so therefore I must be this anxiety filled individual that sleeps cuddled next to a gun because I WANT to shoot whomever steps foot on my property. You and I agree differently is all and unfortunately I don’t have time for anything else seeing as I now have to go tell three of my pastor friends that maybe they shouldn’t be leading a church since obviously they have no faith in God what with the guns in their closet. Anyway, done with this silliness.

  • http://www.fivedills.com Greg Dill

    I do. Abortion and gun violence are both a travesty in our country. I am 100% pro-life. This is why I’m for ALL life, both in the womb and out of it. And, this is why I am against abortion AND gun violence.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    If you are for protecting ALL life, then taking a position against private ownership of firearms is inconsistent. Criminal use of firearms has pretty much NOTHING to do with the 99 other percent of firearm owners. If you want to regulate something – regulate the criminals and leave everyone else alone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.moss.1420 Robert Justice-Moss

    OK Greg .. If you are a Christian, then you are opposed to homosexuality. Are you the one Christian I keep hearing about? The “one” who is AFRAID of homosexuals – a homophobic? Your argument that gunowners live in fear is about as ridiculous as claims of homophobia.

    Do you have a spare tire in your trunk? WHY? Do you live in perpetual fear of having a flat?

    Were you never a boy scout? Did you never hear the phrase “Be Prepared?” If/When you ever find yourself in need of a firearm, I don’t think you’ll have the time or opportunity to visit the local WalMart.

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  • John Kelseck

    Is it just me or did the majority of people completely miss what this was about?

  • Richard Fitzgerald

    At what point in our history has our country actually placed God above ourselves? Even in our founding we hypocritically claimed to fight for freedom from tyranny while perpetrating a far greater tyranny against slaves than England ever attempted to perpetrate against us.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=62500923 Mike Arienti

    While I respect your views, Pastor, I must note that I also understand guns can be quite practical and functional. As Christians, not only must we follow God, we must avail ourselves to man-made solutions at times. God’s provision is sometimes through human interventions or inventions.
    If a group of men broke into my home and smashed my televisions and threatened to shoot my wife, praying for an instant miracle may just end with me dying while in prayer. If I were to return their threat by pointing my own weapon at them, they’d probably be less likely to fire at me. Now, I never want to have to shoot anyone, but I will defend my family, friends, and myself with deadly force if I must do so to end a threat.

  • Roger

    I can imagine Peter saying something very similar to the other disciples as they were walking towards the garden of Gethsemane.

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  • MadMonk

    I offer the same respect to those who choose not to own a gun as I expect to receive for my decision to own one.

  • Heath

    Exactly. Guns and the 2nd Amendment Aren’t the rights we enjoy every day given to us by God? If not, then our 1st Amendment right to worship can be taken from us. The 2nd Amendment is there to ensure we keep ALL our rights.

    For those like pastor Brian who choose not own guns, that is your right. But please, do not deny me and others the right to make that same decision.